Wifi extender/repeater for Karma.

[JCLs]

Thanks for such a good post about Karma tests.
Let me please double check with you couple things what I'm worried about:
1) If I lost signal, drone will start move back to launch location and when signal is back you can control it again right?
2) What if Karma lost GPS and lost control, how will it come back? Does it have kind of autopilot and saved route to come back to launch place? That's more scared things and heart stopped beating when I see this.
3) Today I found that indicator on the left bottom corner is not a distance radar, it is showing facing to karma for the best signal.
What if I launch Karma just vertical up over head and it starting showing red signal but the height is not extremely high, so what will be if I continue flying in red zone, what can happen and what drone will do?
4) I'm leaving in the 25 floor building and there are some roof repairing works going on, so I wanted to check progress on it, and when I reached the 15-20th floor it was already red on the left corner, is it red of possibility to lose wifi signal and control ? or it is red that drone is vertical and controller not facing to the drone? Also I saw how video signal became intermittent.
I will appreciate so much for your reply!

First, you really should Read manual carefully.

1) if control signal lost and GPS still good, then Karma heads home. If control signal regained yes you can take over again

2). Let me ask you question. If no GPS how does Karma know where it is? Even if home position recorded, how does Karma know how to get there if it no longer knows where it (the Karma itself) is??

3) you will loose control signal

4) you need to try and keep antenna aimed best you can at Karma. 25 story building you live in has WiFi I would assume on every floor. How much WiFi and how many changes in WiFi etc are you trying to get Karma to perform in? Not a good place in my mind to be flying period.



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[Fpeople]

I have just downloaded and read again manual.
Thank you for all your description and advice, appreciate.
Waiting to come back home soon and test it again.
P.S> Merry XMas and a Happy New Year !

 

[MotoX88294]

Hi all! Just signed up for an account here. I've been driving rc cars for about 10 years and flying 172's for about 13 years but I'm new to the 0-400ft altitudes. I've had the Karma for about 2 weeks now and I love it but also suffer with signal at times when in town. So long story short I bought a ITElite RangePro for it just to see what it does...why not. Ill let y'all know how that goes. I also have a question: BPRescue mentioned something about simulating a return to me (boat) after walking 50 yards...is this in the Karma's programming to know after I've moved to a certain threshold to instead come home to me by default vs going allll the way back to launch? I'm confused as to why there's not a large manual provided with every drone outlying these limits and rules that it follows.

 

[Alyxiss]

Hi all! Just signed up for an account here. I've been driving rc cars for about 10 years and flying 172's for about 13 years but I'm new to the 0-400ft altitudes. I've had the Karma for about 2 weeks now and I love it but also suffer with signal at times when in town. So long story short I bought a ITElite RangePro for it just to see what it does...why not. Ill let y'all know how that goes. I also have a question: BPRescue mentioned something about simulating a return to me (boat) after walking 50 yards...is this in the Karma's programming to know after I've moved to a certain threshold to instead come home to me by default vs going allll the way back to launch? I'm confused as to why there's not a large manual provided with every drone outlying these limits and rules that it follows.

Hey there!
When you choose ‘auto-land’ you can choose ‘return to you’ or ‘return to launch’. Karma Will land where you (the controller) are at that moment

I would REALLY like to know if that range extender works!
I’m a little sad about the range of my drone And really hoped something like this would improve my range or even my connection with the drone (im losing connection quite often...). Did you have a chance to try it out yet? Would love to know if i should get one too.

 

[WallyWallWhackr]

@BPRescue I appreciate your input. It verifies my understanding of what is supposed to happen during a lost connection. But, as discussed in the Disappears ... and Runaway... threads, that is not what has been happening.

@emm I don't think a wifi repeater will work. If I recall correctly (my drone is currently in KIA status, so I cant verify this), the link between the drone and the controller is WPA (i.e., can't intercept or remote into the network) and there's no access (UI pathway) to tell either device to use a 3rd party (the extender) device as a go between. (Note: you can tell the controller what WiFi AP to use, but that's just to get to the internet for downloading of maps, uploading of flight logs, connecting to your gopro acct -- this is not the connection the drone uses to communicate with the controller)

Perhaps not the wifi repeater idea, but a higher gain antenna on the controller could be a good third party add-on/hack. Could perhaps even do so on the drone itself, though I suspect that it has at least two antennas, because it "returns home" and orienting itself for that task involves lining up with the controller's signal.
Short little high gain antennas though would do it. Better performance on the original hooks. We don' need no stinkin' repeater.

 

[Rambler358]

So long story short I bought a ITElite RangePro for it just to see what it does...why not. Ill let y'all know how that goes.

Have you had a chance to try this out yet? How difficult was the install?

 

[MotoX88294]

I wish I had it! I think there's a problem with USPS or something because my tacking number doesn't exist anymore and I haven't gotten anything in the mail...strange :/
Ill be sure to take pictures of the install. Maybe even a video!

 

[Rambler358]

I wish I had it! I think there's a problem with USPS or something because my tacking number doesn't exist anymore and I haven't gotten anything in the mail...strange :/
Ill be sure to take pictures of the install. Maybe even a video!

Maybe give USPS a call, you don't want that lost in their system.

 

[MotoX88294]

 

[Shred]

Multiple tests for lost connection as I also test after updates. Powering the controller off has the Karma hover a few moments, then return to my launch area. In testing this, I have also tried to bury the controller in my vehicle, in ditches out of line of sight, and even in an underground water utility connection and could not get it to lose connection until I powered it off.


Similar with battery drain testing I have ignored the first low battery warning as to let the Karma take control, and like losing connection, it would return to launch. I have taken it a step further and walked 50 yards from the launch site as to simulate what would happen with battery drain if I was in my boat, and it did return to me, rather than launch.


As I said, I also tested this after new updates which BTW reflect the change from return altitude of 100' vs. the original 66'. This is where you also saw many people making claims of losing control and smacking into a building or mountain, when the reality was they made multiple mistakes, one being not setting the appropriate return altitude, so they ran into the building or mountain they flew behind.


I really started this testing because there were so many complaints on YouTube or other forums on the Karma losing control, but since I already had and loved the GoPro products, I wanted to try and stick with it for the best value. So, I purchased the Karma, and the additional protection, then started to get familiar with it and begin these tests so I knew what it would do in given situations. At first it was tough because it is just wrong to toss a $1000 camera in air and shut off the controller, but I felt better to crash now than while I was on vacation, and again why I purchased the GoPro Care. It was then I started to get more confident in the Karma and also test other limits such as wind, distance, etc. BTW, at 2000', the Karma is a dot and you cannot tell the direction unless looking at the video, so I think that is effectively what the FAA deems "line of sight", and the limit.


Either way, closing in on 6 months now flying just about every weekend and not one loss of connection, or loss of control. Whatever the reason it seems people are quick to assume, or attack the Karma but from experience, once you know how it reacts to a given situation, you can immediately tell in video or explanation and most I have seen are user error, or just a lack of understanding what is happening. Also keep in mind that prior to the most recent update, you could not control the Karma once it forced auto return and could only cancel the flight, and at the time many did not even understand the Karma was returninging home hence claiming they lost control. They didnt even know you could cancel the return and take full control. With the new update you can now steer it around obstacles while in return mode, but it still forces the landing unless you cancel it.


But here It also seems like in this instance to be honest, people are falling in line when the reality is the OP has provided no detail of the flight other than he had a "fly away due to a lost connection", so we are attacking the symptom rather than the sickness. Again, I say "maybe" it did fly away, but nobody can make that assessment without having details of the flight. I also said it is possible given a hardware failure, or interference, but at this point I don't think so.

Great info thanks for sharing.. i love the product...

 

[Rambler358]

Did you ever receive it?

 

[Shred]

Did you ever receive it?

Not yet but that’s funny

 

[MotoX88294]

USPS followed my meme to a tee; my RangePro finally came in the mail and I found time yesterday to do the install with the help of some new IFIXIT tools. I haven't had a chance to test it out but here it is!:
View media item 9View media item 10View media item 11View media item 12View media item 13View media item 14

 

[Lon Denard]

Here's the thing, the Karma uses single band 2.4 WiFi for control and only one GPS system for navigation. The combination of these two things is the problem. I've had a loss of GPS AND SIGNAL AT THE SAME TIME. What exactly do you think will happen when that occurs? You don't have to be far away or out of line of sight to lose signal when you're using 2.4 GHz in the city. Even the $400 DJI Spark uses dual band WiFi (With controller) and dual system GPS.

 

[MotoX88294]

Here's the thing, the Karma uses single band 2.4 WiFi for control and only one GPS system for navigation. The combination of these two things is the problem. I've had a loss of GPS AND SIGNAL AT THE SAME TIME. What exactly do you think will happen when that occurs? You don't have to be far away or out of line of sight to lose signal when you're using 2.4 GHz in the city. Even the $400 DJI Spark uses dual band WiFi (With controller) and dual system GPS.

The Karma would seriously benefit from dual GPS. Unfortunately that will never happen. I guess what I'm after is just a nicely polished turd. I'd like to see better video quality while flying most of all. I feel comfortable flying 90% of the time (that's a BIG 10% on the other side though). At the end of the day, I always get the footage I'm after so I'm usually happy. I still have yet to test the new antenna.

 

[Lon Denard]

Thanks for such a good post about Karma tests.
Let me please double check with you couple things what I'm worried about:
1) If I lost signal, drone will start move back to launch location and when signal is back you can control it again right?
2) What if Karma lost GPS and lost control, how will it come back? Does it have kind of autopilot and saved route to come back to launch place? That's more scared things and heart stopped beating when I see this.
3) Today I found that indicator on the left bottom corner is not a distance radar, it is showing facing to karma for the best signal.
What if I launch Karma just vertical up over head and it starting showing red signal but the height is not extremely high, so what will be if I continue flying in red zone, what can happen and what drone will do?
4) I'm leaving in the 25 floor building and there are some roof repairing works going on, so I wanted to check progress on it, and when I reached the 15-20th floor it was already red on the left corner, is it red of possibility to lose wifi signal and control ? or it is red that drone is vertical and controller not facing to the drone? Also I saw how video signal became intermittent.
I will appreciate so much for your reply!

I can answer number 2, when you lose both GPS and wifi the drone becomes a $1000 kite without a string. I agree that it's not necessarily a "flyaway" but more of a blown away. Unlike many other drones on the market made by Yuneec, Parrot, DJI, etc the Karma lacks any other positioning sensors or equipment. I had mine lose GPS while filling in town, by a river and it was a challenge to bring it back even with it only 20' off the ground and 100' away.

The Karma would seriously benefit from dual GPS. Unfortunately that will never happen. I guess what I'm after is just a nicely polished turd. I'd like to see better video quality while flying most of all. I feel comfortable flying 90% of the time (that's a BIG 10% on the other side though). At the end of the day, I always get the footage I'm after so I'm usually happy. I still have yet to test the new antenna.

Yep, it was the first mod I made with my 3DR Solo once the warranty was up. Night and day. I know I probably sound like a jerk but my Karma is parked and I mostly fly my Mavic. Even if there become modifications to overcome these deficits, I can't see spending potentially hundreds of dollars to make this drone slightly better when new drones with positioning sensors, obstical avoidance, better cameras, better autonomous modes, longer flight times, still better range, redundant systems, quieter, more portable, etc are available. I played that game with the 3DR Solo for awhile but it didn't make a lot of sense.

 

[MotoX88294]

I can answer number 2, when you lose both GPS and wifi the drone becomes a $1000 kite without a string. I agree that it's not necessarily a "flyaway" but more of a blown away. Unlike many other drones on the market made by Yuneec, Parrot, DJI, etc the Karma lacks any other positioning sensors or equipment. I had mine lose GPS while filling in town, by a river and it was a challenge to bring it back even with it only 20' off the ground and 100' away.


Yep, it was the first mod I made with my 3DR Solo once the warranty was up. Night and day. I know I probably sound like a jerk but my Karma is parked and I mostly fly my Mavic. Even if there become modifications to overcome these deficits, I can't see spending potentially hundreds of dollars to make this drone slightly better when new drones with positioning sensors, obstical avoidance, better cameras, better autonomous modes, longer flight times, still better range, redundant systems, quieter, more portable, etc are available. I played that game with the 3DR Solo for awhile but it didn't make a lot of sense.

You're fine, no offense taken. I'm used to everyone putting me down for buying a Karma anyway haha. I got a nice deal on a refurbished Karma package for $430. I was really only after the grip since I'm a big GoPro fan; I look at it as getting a $130 Karma drone with a new Karma grip that runs for $300. Moving on though, I've been obsessively eyeballing the Mavic Air. If only that came out a few months ago when I was in the market for my first drone.

 

[Lon Denard]

You're fine, no offense taken. I'm used to everyone putting me down for buying a Karma anyway haha. I got a nice deal on a refurbished Karma package for $430. I was really only after the grip since I'm a big GoPro fan; I look at it as getting a $130 Karma drone with a new Karma grip that runs for $300. Moving on though, I've been obsessively eyeballing the Mavic Air. If only that came out a few months ago when I was in the market for my first drone.

I know, I have the Mavic Pro and for some stupid reason I want an Air as well!!! I have about a dozen drones now but I really only fly the Mavic. I've considered flying the Karma a couple times because I appreciate the video quality. I think it's better than the Mavic's. Of course it may be just that the Go Pro color profile appeals to me. Oh btw here's the video of me wrangling my Karma back to the shore. I was standing on the path just below it when it lost GPS and WiFi was intermittent. It's kinda long...

 

[MotoX88294]

I know, I have the Mavic Pro and for some stupid reason I want an Air as well!!! I have about a dozen drones now but I really only fly the Mavic. I've considered flying the Karma a couple times because I appreciate the video quality. I think it's better than the Mavic's. Of course it may be just that the Go Pro color profile appeals to me. Oh btw here's the video of me wrangling my Karma back to the shore. I was standing on the path just below it when it lost GPS and WiFi was intermittent. It's kinda long...

Yikes! Looks like a "I just lost GPS" kinda landing too. I've had two major incidents with loss of GPS. First one was 1000' out and 200' up, over water, controller said GPS was gone, I did not have visual but was able to fly to me with the screen til I got visual, then struggled to land just for it to find GPS right before touchdown... Second incident: roughly 10 knots of wind, i flew upwind to 200' alt and on the way, lost GPS, began to fly it home but something was off...it went into a weird limp mode where it thought "up" was a little sideways. Almost like it started its gyros crooked if it had them, so no matter which way i yaw-ed, it wanted to haul ass in a NW direction...which also happened to be downwind to make it worse. I couldn't hold it. It slowly went over me, over the house, over the neighborhood, I'm holding the stick hard to make it stop, then it was gone. I ran through the neighborhood not giving any input anymore to find it just hovering like nothing was wrong about 600' down the way. I was pissed but relieved that it found GPS all on its own. Haven't flown much since.

 

[Lon Denard]

Yikes! Looks like a "I just lost GPS" kinda landing too. I've had two major incidents with loss of GPS. First one was 1000' out and 200' up, over water, controller said GPS was gone, I did not have visual but was able to fly to me with the screen til I got visual, then struggled to land just for it to find GPS right before touchdown... Second incident: roughly 10 knots of wind, i flew upwind to 200' alt and on the way, lost GPS, began to fly it home but something was off...it went into a weird limp mode where it thought "up" was a little sideways. Almost like it started its gyros crooked if it had them, so no matter which way i yaw-ed, it wanted to haul ass in a NW direction...which also happened to be downwind to make it worse. I couldn't hold it. It slowly went over me, over the house, over the neighborhood, I'm holding the stick hard to make it stop, then it was gone. I ran through the neighborhood not giving any input anymore to find it just hovering like nothing was wrong about 600' down the way. I was pissed but relieved that it found GPS all on its own. Haven't flown much since.

Well maybe if you had treated it with a bit more respect, Buddy!!! hahaha! Oh I've had several incidents with TWO Karmas. It seemed like I was going to lose either wifi or GPS every other flight, so I finally gave up and went to the "Dark Side"!!! Like I said, I feel the Hero 5 has better video but the Mavic is a WAY better drone. It's not even close. The biggest difference for me has been confidence. When I flew my 3DR Solo or the Karma, I went over everything carefully. Turned everything on in a certain sequence and double checked the controls and telemetry data carefully before flying off. Even after all that I was a nervous wreck! I stayed as FAR away from people as I possibly could and even aborted flights if there were more than a few bodies around. I kept the drone close and never went more than a few hundred feet away. Heck, I was almost surprised when everything went okay.

Now I break out the Mavic, turn everything on however and go fly. I'm not saying that I'm completely without concern but after more than 100 flights with ZERO issues. Well, my confidence is at an all time high. I never had that with my Parrot, Yuneec, 3DR or this drone.