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Three blade props on Karma?

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lol I like @Krash Karrigan 's spunk! haha. I live in the question all the time, thinking outside the box.. Usually those of us that do, oft break the barriers and design kewl things! I've tried thousand's of things that never worked out, BUT learned so much along the way. and am often referred to as very creative. Even without knowing you Krash, I would know for a fact that if (or maybe even when;)lol) you might experiment with such, the thought of blaming the Karma if your attempts fail, would never enter your mind. I know it wouldn't enter mine! watching other attempts and failures is not always as optimal as testing and experimenting ones'self. I've accomplished certain things where other's say it cant be done, they've tried such and such, yet golly if i didn't persist and find a way to do what other's said they couldn't. That doesn't happen all the time, but I'm not one to shut a door unless i've hands on shown myself that i couldn't make it work. even then sometimes im not convinced! I only prove that I am not able, but still hold it in my mind that SOMEONE , SOMEwhere has the skillset to do it.
Matisse,
Thanks for the reply. You and I are birds of a feather. Life is a journey and stopping off at places others avoid has been interesting, informative and rewarding. Not one to go with the flow and the rewards have more than made up for the naysayers blather. Look at the differences between the P-47 and the P-51 fighters of WWII. Quite extreme. And yes the 4 bladed props provide more thrust than three blade props and likewise 3 vs 2 blades. That is why I am going to try three blades. Three blades of the same pitch and length as a two blade produces more thrust at the same rpm, about 50% more. Less rpm to provide the same thrust has to increase battery life.
The Karma was a good starting point but for whatever reason the engineering did not evolve as it could have. That failure left the field to the competition which took the drone technology to another level and left the Karma back with the horse and buggy. The Karma is good and usable but leaves much to be desired.

By the way, picked up one of the "refurbished" Karma bundles at the $299 price. They say refurbished but the one I got is brand new. Not a scratch on anything, all the original packaging of a new unit was in place. As a source of spare parts for future 3 bladed crashes on my other Karma, a bargain it is. They even threw in a GOPRO beanie. Such a deal!!!!!

Krash
 
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Matisse

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@Krash Karrigan dont know if you could hear from wherever you are, but i gave an audible “woot woot!” Upon reading youre up to giving it this think through and a go. Im rooting for you, whether it works or not, or takes you 1 try, or 10 tries/tweaks....and whether or not there is success, i aim to follow the thread.
Ya, im sure you’ve then felt a time or two (or ten haha) that almost “drive” that stokes us types when the naysayers naysay. It almost gives us more ecouragement in some weird way, ya?
@Shon, fwiw, i think if you heard the actual tone of voice of Krash’s sarcasm, in real life, his intent wasnt rudeness or derrogatory, it was a tongue in cheek, kind of thing... hard to hear through a text/post... and yes, easily misinterpreted as rude...but if you gave his post another read and pictured him laughing as he said it, does it give a different feel? ive been busted on the same type of speak in text format where i was having a jovial play, and was told how pathetic i was... all becoz the person could not hear the jovialness of my voice...oh well :(. It is what it is.
Cheers gents.
 

Ironspear

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I think KK mayhap needs to think before he types. Personally I thought what he wrote was rude. You really have to be careful when you type. People will take what you type as how they perceive it. It can be difficult at times. Have fun.
 

Matisse

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JCLs

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Winter time for many here so nothing better to do ?


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Matisse

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With the increase of pitch and thrust you have to lose something and that something has to be battery life!
Good to know. Now i wonder what could the loss equate to i wonder.... 5%, 10%, 25%? One can then decide on their personal level of ROI. If a gent or lass has a bank of 5 batts, a 5% more rapid discharge is quite negligible as compared to a chap with 2 batts facing a 25% accellerated discharge rate, yes? So, what is that number? Can you quantify at this point? Heck on a bloody windier day, even with stock OEM parts, the same battery that got me 18:00 minutes may only get me 15:00 that day... true?
Again... just me living in the question..... learning more day by day!
 

Ironspear

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I think that as the Karma has been about now for a couple of years that some one would have thought this through. I think the engineering that goes/went intro the Karma is so precise that to alter it may prove catastrophic. But I guess if you have the money waste on Karma cores then so be it lol.....
 

James Hatch

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Maybe I was fortunate enough to have grown up in the era of such people as R.J. Mitchell and Barnes Wallis and in later life I got to fly in the Avro Lancaster, the aircraft that carried Barnes Wallis's bouncing bomb. Then I was a radar tech looking after another WW2 invention "H2S" radar that allowed bombing targets through clouds. The bomb bays were converted to take fuel tanks so the aircraft could be used a a long range navigational trainer. Boy those Merlin engines were noisy. Now of course navigators have been replaced by GPS systems and Air Traffic Control can be done from halfway around the world. That is what I ended up my career as an Air Traffic Controller. Boy how much that has changed in the past few years. So now you can see why I am so interested in flying my Karma Drone.
 
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With the increase of pitch and thrust you have to lose something and that something has to be battery life!
Maybe I was fortunate enough to have grown up in the era of such people as R.J. Mitchell and Barnes Wallis and in later life I got to fly in the Avro Lancaster, the aircraft that carried Barnes Wallis's bouncing bomb. Then I was a radar tech looking after another WW2 invention "H2S" radar that allowed bombing targets through clouds. The bomb bays were converted to take fuel tanks so the aircraft could be used a a long range navigational trainer. Boy those Merlin engines were noisy. Now of course navigators have been replaced by GPS systems and Air Traffic Control can be done from halfway around the world. That is what I ended up my career as an Air Traffic Controller. Boy how much that has changed in the past few years. So now you can see why I am so interested in flying my Karma Drone.
Good to know. Now i wonder what could the loss equate to i wonder.... 5%, 10%, 25%? One can then decide on their personal level of ROI. If a gent or lass has a bank of 5 batts, a 5% more rapid discharge is quite negligible as compared to a chap with 2 batts facing a 25% accellerated discharge rate, yes? So, what is that number? Can you quantify at this point? Heck on a bloody windier day, even with stock OEM parts, the same battery that got me 18:00 minutes may only get me 15:00 that day... true?
Again... just me living in the question..... learning more day by day!
With the increase of pitch and thrust you have to lose something and that something has to be battery life!
Nothing was said about increasing pitch! Review of data online indeed indicates a three bladed prop should provide about 30% more thrust than a two blade of the same diameter and pitch. Hence the motor can spin at a lower rpm, producing the same thrust with less drain on the battery. Being rude again, several of the posts on this thread are just plain wrong. To new readers, take much of what is posted here with adequate grains of salt!
 

James Hatch

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Nothing was said about increasing pitch! Review of data online indeed indicates a three bladed prop should provide about 30% more thrust than a two blade of the same diameter and pitch. Hence the motor can spin at a lower rpm, producing the same thrust with less drain on the battery. Being rude again, several of the posts on this thread are just plain wrong. To new readers, take much of what is posted here with adequate grains of salt!
 

James Hatch

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If a three blade was more efficient over the two blade prop the GoPro designer would have used it from the start. Look tampering with the Karma design is just
asking for trouble. If you want a drone to dash all over the sky, then I suggest you go look for one elsewhere. Karma was designed as a stable platform to carry the GoPro camera and enable the operator to obtain high quality photographs and videos.
 

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JCLs

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Nothing was said about increasing pitch! Review of data online indeed indicates a three bladed prop should provide about 30% more thrust than a two blade of the same diameter and pitch. Hence the motor can spin at a lower rpm, producing the same thrust with less drain on the battery!
The relationship with thrust is also tied to power and motors run hotter. Have played with blunt nose and 3 blade 5” props a bit and seen the affects. Nothing comes free. Not a lot of larger size 3 blade props out there. Must be a reason.



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Thanks for the knowledgeable reply. Have found some 9.5 inch three bladed props that will thread onto the Karma motors. Now considering making prop guards in a duct configuration.
There is additional free thrust produced by ducted fans. Two birds with one stone. If indeed the free thrust is generated it will follow that the motors can operate at a lower rpm and generate less heat and draw less current. WIn, win win in my book.
 

James Hatch

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Krash you are living up to your name and looking for trouble, and now 9.5" three blade props The next thing you will be looking for replacement motors, or worse still a replacement Karma.
 

JCLs

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No such thing as “free thrust”.

I am sure there ate better references about but to get an idea of how complicated this gets look at this:

You cannot get the same torque out of the motor at lower speeds yet the 3 blade is demanding just that. So if motor not spec’d out for that it will run very hot. I have seen this when playing with 5” blades as I said.

The Karma was never intended to be messed with from a design point. Of course you can but I truly think you will regret the 3 blade props. Just saying.

Go buy something like Buy Lumenier QAV500 FPV Quadcopter Drones - Free Shipping | GetFPV

They make a 400 and a 250 size also but add a Vector controller from Eagle Tree. Vector Flight Controller + OSD

Then you get radios, video camera, ESCs and motors and props etc. You now have control of the project!


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James Hatch

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You can play with all the changes you like. But the quality and performance of the Karma with the GoPro cameras stands out a mile. In the right hands the Karma can't be beaten.
 
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You can play with all the changes you like. But the quality and performance of the Karma with the GoPro cameras stands out a mile. In the right hands the Karma can't be beaten.
You can play with all the changes you like. But the quality and performance of the Karma with the GoPro cameras stands out a mile. In the right hands the Karma can't be beaten.
I can see it is a waste of time using this forum. The hogs don't need slopped for a few minutes so here goes. Riddle me this Splatt man. If the Karma is so perfect why is it no longer being produced? With such stellar engineering bordering on perfection why have there been so many Karma's fly off's? "Quality and performance stands out a mile" ??? Fly's out a mile is more accurate! Are you a paid shill or an employee of GoPro kissing up to management?
Free thrust. Ducted fans are constructed so that the fan housing is a lifting body on its own. Air flow over the duct surfaces produce lift and is in addition to the lift produced by the prop.
Krash, over and OUT!
 

JCLs

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Take your energy for free and enjoy your new place.

Coming to a Karma user place and bashing the Karma helps nobody. Lots of issues we all know but constant bashing w/o solutions no help. Grass is always greener on other side if fence.


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