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Karma refusing to pair - Reverse engineering investigation

Ironspear

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I am in process of getting myself geared up once more to fly my Karma drone again. After a couple of years of moving and getting settled down on the Eastern shore of Canada in Nova Scotia. To get the pairing system working again I am going to try pairing in three stages, first pairing the drone body on its own without stabiliser and camera, if that works, \i will add the stabiliser without the camera. If that works I will add the camera. If they all work I will go out on my deck and fly my drone once more.
I am open to any thoughts and suggestions.
Hiya James!

Great to hear from you again mate. Luckily I seem to have avoided the "Karma fiasco".

Great idea to try out. I dont think I have read on here that anyone has tried that.

Good luck.

"Hoots mun! What's made ye move tae New Scotland"? (said in my best Scottish accent) :)

Hope you have settled in nicely.

Take care mate.
 

James Hatch

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Great to hear from you Ironspear!
I now have more room here which to fly my drones the two of them, no airports and city buildings. So I will take it step by step, and will publish my results as we progress.
The Karma is still being produced in China and there is an outlet based here in Canada.
At the present I have two complete drones and spare parts, So I am not interested in making any purchases.
Keep your drones flying and getting great photos of the Murray River!
Jim Hatch.
 

Ironspear

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Great to hear from you Ironspear!
I now have more room here which to fly my drones the two of them, no airports and city buildings. So I will take it step by step, and will publish my results as we progress.
The Karma is still being produced in China and there is an outlet based here in Canada.
At the present I have two complete drones and spare parts, So I am not interested in making any purchases.
Keep your drones flying and getting great photos of the Murray River!
Jim Hatch.
Hello.
It's interesting that they are still sold out of China.
I thought they had all gone.
Great to know you can still get them.
Especially just the core.

ciao
 

Ironspear

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Has anyone bought one of these Chinese cores?
 
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dronelover

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There mus be a way that gopro at factory are able to feed firmware into these cores wothout the help of the controller.
I cant imagine otherwise the time and effort to do all these things via wifi controller.
 

Ironspear

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Not heard any mention about changing these batteries before. I may be wrong though. It sounds like a great logical idea. Definitely worth a try. Good luck mate. Please keep us posted.
 

dronelover

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Please do it.


Hopefully this will also fix the pairing issues alot of us have.


Thanks for contributing 🙏
 

aldous

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dronelover

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One tip.

Dont send your drone to that team in france.

Its bogus.

According to that facebook page that some sent their drones to the team actually got scammed.
A true and honest company would put real prices for their services.

Not a bogus 51 euros. After the diagnostics, the reall 500 Euros will come.


We customers should be aware of the prices so we can weigh in if its worth the hastle and cost to even fix the karma.

For 500 euros one can get a used and functional drone complete with everything RTF.
 

Schick2583

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I don’t know if you have looked into it or not, but if the battery pack is faulty it will cause the gimbal and camera to no be recognized for some reason. I have a video showing a good battery where everything works fine then a “bad” battery and the gimbal and camera won’t turn on. I’ve also noticed recently with my 1 karma, (I have 6 of them) that certain battery packs also won’t allow the karma to connect to the camera and controller but if I swap it out with another one it works fine. I think there’s an issue with the batteries that’s causing a lot of the pairing issues for some reason. The hero 7 black also causes issues since it was designed for the 4, 5 & 6 and the 7 was just a firmware update. Hopefully some of this helps in some way, I’ll be following your post.
 
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dronelover

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I don’t know if you have looked into it or not, but if the battery pack is faulty it will cause the gimbal and camera to no be recognized for some reason. I have a video showing a good battery where everything works fine then a “bad” battery and the gimbal and camera won’t turn on. I’ve also noticed recently with my 1 karma, (I have 6 of them) that certain battery packs also won’t allow the karma to connect to the camera and controller but if I swap it out with another one it works fine. I think there’s an issue with the batteries that’s causing a lot of the pairing issues for some reason. The hero 7 black also causes issues since it was designed for the 4, 5 & 6 and the 7 was just a firmware update. Hopefully some of this helps in some way, I’ll be following your post.
Yes. I saw a video from youtube where a guy caught a fishing line and crashed the drone into the lake.

Everything worked fine but he needed everything to be dry.

The original battery that crashed into the laked made his gimbal and camera to not turn on. But he also had ordered a new battery and that made gimbal/camera to work perfectly.


I also have a second karma drone that would not pair.

I have a total of 4 batteries including the one that came with the unpairing drone.

NONE of the 4 batteries work on the none pairing drone but all four works on my first fully flying karma drone.


Some people also got replacement batteries from gopro but reports says it didnt work for them.

At this point, its pointless and expensive to put more money on this system and becomes a guessing game.
 
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Hello, everyone following many requests "why is it after the update that my KARMA drone broke down pairing?"
The symptom of impossibility of pairing and a « generic error » occurring if impossibility of communication between the drone and the remote control. It is possible to better define the problem with additional user information :

-The leds on the feet of the drone light up after pressing the power button (it indicates an information the first level on the six of the drone motherboard is working.
-That the power off after the leds on does not work ( this indicates that the problem is on the second stage (constitute of a complete central unit). And by a visual investigation, we cannot have more precision.

In this case the only life-limiting component in this second stage is the NAND memory. NAND memory can be destroyed by too many writes, in this case we are the only ones who can provide a solution that we have negotiated as well as possible to arrive at a very low cost of 20€.

-After analysis of the equipment it can be evidenced that the NAND memory is destroyed by too many writes for reasons other than intensive log writing NAND linked to an update in KARMA bad condition. This represents 65% of pairing repairs.
-After analysis of the equipment it can be evidenced a destruction by non-cooling because the power on the KARMA for too long time because the KARMA drone is cooled by air in flight no with a fan. This represents 25% of pairing repairs.
-After analysis of the equipment it can be highlighted another destruction. This represents 10% of pairing repairs.
Our estimate being free at this stage you decide whether or not to repair, in the negative case we send you back your equipment.

Small preamble any flash memory of any type has a limited number of writes because each write destroys a space (fuse cell) in the memory this is the basic principle of a flash memory. NAND UID encrypted flash memory is even more sensitive because continuous defragmentation is not possible due to the encryption property, this encryption is enforced by the FAA.
To try to explain to you the NAND flash memory encrypt to a number write delimit and an update software requires a lot of batch writing in the NAND memory so all KARMA with a memory at the end of its life is dead by an update and all the others will arrive later at the end of life because the system writes continuously in the memory but much less than an update.
The write size: a system update requires 9.872e+12 minimum cycle a flight of the KARMA drone in log write in the memory 1.008e+6 minimum write cycle therefore 10 thousand times less.
So :
-a normal use of a flight written 10 thousand times less in NAND memory than a system update.
-a complete calibration request written 200 times less in NAND memory than a system update.
-a pairing request with the remote written 10 times less in NAND memory than a system update.
And an update when the KARMA drone is not in perfect working order leads to a lot of log writing in the NAND memory, this is very devastating for the memory. I hope to have helped you to understand the problem
So in conclusion the problem is software and hardware.
The end of life of any equipment that contains flash memory is defined, is usually very close to the end of the manufacturer's warranty (USB flash, SSD, Smartphone, today all the equipment ...). This is the biggest end-of-life programming problem. Our advice for complaint is article "the end of life defined programmed" the buyer not informed. A well-known example is the end of life of a USB key. Before the end no alert and at the end no more reading possible and no more writing possible, trash.
We have already written several posts in several forums concerning the specifications of the UID NAND encrypted memory and we have also written several posts in several forums concerning the encryption architecture of the very powerful KARMA system
We solve the problem in a definitive way because we replace the NAND flash Cryt UID memory by a new generation with 10 more depth of cluster.
Apologize our bad English
Regards,
ValorConseilCalvados


UUID.png
 
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One tip.

Dont send your drone to that team in france.

Its bogus.

According to that facebook page that some sent their drones to the team actually got scammed.
A true and honest company would put real prices for their services.

Not a bogus 51 euros. After the diagnostics, the reall 500 Euros will come.


We customers should be aware of the prices so we can weigh in if its worth the hastle and cost to even fix the karma.

For 500 euros one can get a used and functional drone complete with everything RTF.
Hello really sorry for our English but if I write in French you would have more difficulty I just wanted to tell you that 100% of our customers are happy example our last client USA member of your forum for a problem of pairing is Mr. Tim Perkins 150$ and 100% full ok

Which previously was €32, for any request for analysis on GoPro® equipment.
So to give an example for a quote request for equipment that would come from the USA:
(50€ USPS shipping costs US to FR + 0€ for a quote + repair example pairing problem 20€ + 50€ shipping costs FR to US) + Tax 24€ France 20% = Total 144€.

So to give an example for a quote request for equipment that would come from France:
(shipping 10€ + 0€ for a quote + repair example pairing 20€ + 0€ shipping costs) + Tax 6€ France 20% = Total 36€

And like in all the internet space haters/trolls seeking to harm an individual or a company with hate messages to create conflict in their poor little lives it's not up to me to waste my time educating them.

If you want it we have the solution
The symptom of impossibility of pairing and a « generic error » occurring if impossibility of communication between the drone and the remote control. It is possible to better define the problem with additional user information :

-The leds on the feet of the drone light up after pressing the power button (it indicates an information the first level on the six of the drone motherboard is working.
-That the power off after the leds on does not work ( this indicates that the problem is on the second stage (constitute of a complete central unit). And by a visual investigation, we cannot have more precision.

In this case the only life-limiting component in this second stage is the NAND memory. Post (…why is it after the update that my KARMA drone broke down pairing? …). NAND memory can be destroyed by too many writes, in this case we are the only ones who can provide a solution that we have negotiated as well as possible to arrive at a very low cost of 20€.

We have just concluded a new agreement which allows us to provide free support, which was previously 32€, for any analysis request on GoPro® equipment.

-After analysis of the equipment it can be evidenced that the NAND memory is destroyed by too many writes for reasons other than intensive log writing NAND linked to an update in KARMA bad condition. This represents 65% of pairing repairs.
-After analysis of the equipment it can be evidenced a destruction by non-cooling because the power on the KARMA for too long time because the KARMA drone is cooled by air in flight no with a fan. This represents 25% of pairing repairs.
-After analysis of the equipment it can be highlighted another destruction. This represents 10% of pairing repairs.
Our estimate being free at this stage you decide whether or not to repair, in the negative case we send you back your equipment.

And we pride ourselves on having 100% customer satisfaction.
How to be more transparent.
Apologyze my bad English
Regards,
ValorConseilCalvados
 
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company in France repairing karmas.

facebook group about gopro karma problems, sometimes, there're interesting informations.

View attachment 622
source:
Hello really sorry for our English but if I write in French you would have more difficulty I just wanted to tell you that 100% of our customers are happy example our last client USA member of your forum for a problem of pairing is Mr. Tim Perkins 150$ and 100% full ok

Which previously was €32, for any request for analysis on GoPro® equipment.
So to give an example for a quote request for equipment that would come from the USA:
(50€ USPS shipping costs US to FR + 0€ for a quote + repair example pairing problem 20€ + 50€ shipping costs FR to US) + Tax 24€ France 20% = Total 144€.

So to give an example for a quote request for equipment that would come from France:
(shipping 10€ + 0€ for a quote + repair example pairing 20€ + 0€ shipping costs) + Tax 6€ France 20% = Total 36€

And like in all the internet space haters/trolls seeking to harm an individual or a company with hate messages to create conflict in their poor little lives it's not up to me to waste my time educating them.

If you want it we have the solution
The symptom of impossibility of pairing and a « generic error » occurring if impossibility of communication between the drone and the remote control. It is possible to better define the problem with additional user information :

-The leds on the feet of the drone light up after pressing the power button (it indicates an information the first level on the six of the drone motherboard is working.
-That the power off after the leds on does not work ( this indicates that the problem is on the second stage (constitute of a complete central unit). And by a visual investigation, we cannot have more precision.

In this case the only life-limiting component in this second stage is the NAND memory. Post (…why is it after the update that my KARMA drone broke down pairing? …). NAND memory can be destroyed by too many writes, in this case we are the only ones who can provide a solution that we have negotiated as well as possible to arrive at a very low cost of 20€.

We have just concluded a new agreement which allows us to provide free support, which was previously 32€, for any analysis request on GoPro® equipment.

-After analysis of the equipment it can be evidenced that the NAND memory is destroyed by too many writes for reasons other than intensive log writing NAND linked to an update in KARMA bad condition. This represents 65% of pairing repairs.
-After analysis of the equipment it can be evidenced a destruction by non-cooling because the power on the KARMA for too long time because the KARMA drone is cooled by air in flight no with a fan. This represents 25% of pairing repairs.
-After analysis of the equipment it can be highlighted another destruction. This represents 10% of pairing repairs.
Our estimate being free at this stage you decide whether or not to repair, in the negative case we send you back your equipment.

And we pride ourselves on having 100% customer satisfaction.
How to be more transparent.
Apologyze my bad English
Regards,
ValorConseilCalvados
 

MiragePro

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Very interesting piece on what makes this drone fail. Especially about the NAND memory becoming corrupted. I personally thought that it might because the downloading process might have been interrupted and corrupted the memory. Good piece of knowledge to know. Fortunately I have only updated mine once and plan on not having any more updates.
 

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