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[Shon]

what I want to know is can we rely always on the "Ready to fly”

The simple answer is “no”. Every drone can lose GPS...every single one. I’ve lost GPS immediately after takeoff before. Do pre-flight check, scan for hazards, and do the best you can to anticipate possible problems.

Obviously... losing GPS can be worse on the Karma than with other drones that have down facing sensors that help stability. It makes maintaining control difficult, but not impossible.

I’ve flown without GPS on multiple occasions.

 

[james shih]

Thank you for your respond, you are completely right I have 2-3 times faced the karma shifting just after taking-off,
but no problem to fly around afterward if it is hovering steady in the beginning, my question is is it possible that karma will lost GPS signal during the flying? ( I mean we fly correctly ), it really can't imagine this will happen in the 21st century.
Below is one of the accidents:

 

[Shon]

Thank you for your respond, you are completely right I have 2-3 times faced the karma shifting just after taking-off,
but no problem to fly around afterward if it is hovering steady in the beginning, my question is is it possible that karma will lost GPS signal during the flying? ( I mean we fly correctly ), it really can't imagine this will happen in the

Thank you for your respond, you are completely right I have 2-3 times faced the karma shifting just after taking-off,
but no problem to fly around afterward if it is hovering steady in the beginning, my question is is it possible that karma will lost GPS signal during the flying? ( I mean we fly correctly ), it really can't imagine this will happen in the 21st century.
Below is one of the accidents:

Yes. It can lose GPS while flying, even if you “hover” beforehand. It is much more likely to occur if you are flying in an urban area with significant electronic interference, near tall buildings, in a slot canyon, or at the bottom of a steep slope where you don’t have direct ground to sky LOS at the angle required for GPS satellite. Generally, speaking, the more urban the area is that I am flying in, or the narrower the canyon is that I am dropping my drone into, the more likely I am to experience problems.

It can happen in seemingly perfect conditions too. It is just less likely to happen. If it does, just be ready to take over manual control and land the aircraft.

 

[Shon]

Watching your video, I’m wondering if it was a GPS problem. It seems more related to your acellerometer or some other malfunction.

Did you “calibrate the compass” before flying? When was the last time you callabrated the acellerometer? Your drone should generally hover in place. With GPS loss, your drone should still hover in place, it will just have even less stability and will be more likely to drift. You should still have control and be able to “counteract” the drift, so for example If your drone is drifting forward, you should be able to press back on the controls far enough for it to stop drifting.

Not sure why your drone was acting the way it did. If you can’t figure it out, you might want to run your concerns by GoPro customer service. They can look at the flight logs and tell you what went wrong. If you have a defective product, they could help replace it.

 

[james shih]

I didn't explain the details in my accident footage, actually it was that I got warning of "compass interfere" just after the take-off so I hold the left stick to make the karma down during it's shifting side way, as you can see at the end of that footage I gripped it to the other location then it started fine and I have had a fine fly afterwards, what I am not comfortable is why there is only 50% GPS (according to my test the other day) then the controller gives the "ready to fly" massage, the software should be easy to deal with this, I am also curious why the Gopro people not talk on this point in the forums.
I think you are right, we should practice the flying skill more with the karma lost GPS signals.

 

[james shih]

It can happen in seemingly perfect conditions too. It is just less likely to happen. If it does, just be ready to take over manual control and land the aircraft.

Look your opinion above that makes me feel nervous and realize that there are too much restrictions to fly a drone, I don't understand whether it is the essential of a drone which nothing you can do or the technology still not mature yet.

 

[james shih]

Did you “calibrate the compass” before flying? When was the last time you callabrated the acellerometer?

yes I did "compass" and "acceleration meter" calibration several times but not on a regular basis, normally I do it under the request by the controller or I move to another spots sometimes it becomes "ready to fly", but in the wide open spaces I usually get the message "ready to fly", then why we should calibrate again, this comes back to the point that can we rely on the "ready to fly" message, if not what can we do when somebody lie to you?

 

[Shon]

yes I did "compass" and "acceleration meter" calibration several times but not on a regular basis, normally I do it under the request by the controller or I move to another spots sometimes it becomes "ready to fly", but in the wide open spaces I usually get the message "ready to fly", then why we should calibrate again, this comes back to the point that can we rely on the "ready to fly" message, if not what can we do when somebody lie to you?

Lying: "To make an untrue statement with intent to deceive." (Dictionary)

Your drone doesn't have an "intent" to deceive. If you don't re-calibrate your compass or accelerometer, the drone doesn't know any better, it may think everything is okay when it isn't. If your drone doesn't detect any interference, if it detects that the landing gear is fully extended, if it detects that the arms are fully extended, if it detects that the camera is on...that the gimbal and stabilizer is connected and working correctly...if it detects that you have a minimal GPS connection that will allow you to launch safely...In that moment...the drone doesn't register anything wrong. As far as the drone is concerned, you are "ready to fly".

There are many things the drone doesn't run a diagnostic check for. For example... is your battery seated correctly? Are your props screwed on correctly (tight..white on white, black on black). Are there any defects with the body of the drone?

It also can't anticipate or predict future or external events (compass issues, GPS issues, high winds, KP index issues, temporary flight restrictions, etc.). Drones are much "Dumber" than we give them credit for. As I said above, You could certainly consider this a "limitation of the technology"or lack of mature technology, and I do think we need to take notice of where these limitations are, and how to avoid potential problems.

Experiment: Take all your propellers off the drone. turn it on and "arm" it as if you are preparing to fly it. If outside, even without propellers, the drone will say "ready to fly". Is it ready? What would happen if you tried to fly without propellers?

Is the drone "lying" if it says "ready to fly" in the above conditions? How would the drone know any differently? What if you only had two props on the drone (don't really try this...you will crash)? What if one prop breaks immediately after take off? Would the drone be "lying" if it said "ready to fly" and you took off into a 65kph wind? If it isn't able to anticipate high winds, how would your drone anticipate compass interference or GPS loss prior to flight?

I think you could call this a "limitation in the technology", but there are ways you can anticipate and avoid these types of issues.

Here are a few suggestions from Go Pro's Community Hub on how to mitigate potential problems:

Solved: PLEASE READ if you plan to fly - GOPRO SUPPORT HUB

It sounds like a long list...but literally takes seconds to do.

Even Gopro's official website offers a significant number of things you should do (including re-calibrating your compass) before getting to that "ready to fly" message. Even then...Gopro recommends that you wait an additional one or two minutes to acquire additional satellites before actually launching:
https://gopro.com/help/articles/question_answer/Karma-First-Flight-Tips

Like you mentioned earlier...I typically hover for a few seconds to assure everything is working as it should.

When I see "ready to fly", I'm reading that the drone didn't detect any current issues, and is ready for me to press the "start" button.The drone is not assuring me that I will have a safe or perfect flight. If I have done all the pre-flight checks as listed above...I'm much more likely than not...to have a safe interference free flight.

 

[james shih]

You gave a very completely explanation as an experienced pilot, I totally agree with you.
Since I have no any problem to fly karma until now, what I am worried about is karma might lost or got not enough GPS signal during the flight, I suggest karma controller can show the GPS % during the fly by a new version firmware, then pilot can check and do something to avoid the accident.

 

[Shon]

You gave a very completely explanation as an experienced pilot, I totally agree with you.
Since I have no any problem to fly karma until now, what I am worried about is karma might lost or got not enough GPS signal during the flight, I suggest karma controller can show the GPS % during the fly by a new version firmware, then pilot can check and do something to avoid the accident.

It would definitely be a nice addition for the Karma controller to show how many Satellites it is connected to.

 

[james shih]

I don't know, may be there are already information in the controller needed to be displayed only by updating the firmware .